Victoria's Question

One of my most recent contributors to my guestbook asked a question that is very similar to one that I ask in my debates with Christians. She asked me to post it for all to see and I though that this would be a good way to breach this subject here at my site. Among the other things that Victoria wrote, she asked:

What if God came to YOU and said that everything about the Bible and Christianity were true?

If God came to me, and I could verify that it was God through some miracles performed in front of multiple witnesses or some other equally conclusive way, and God told me that the Bible and Christianity were true, I would begin a new web site today more religious and testimonial to such a truth as was demonstrated. I would unquestioningly devote my life to teaching the Bible to as many people as would listen.

Now for my question, Victoria. This is directed at you, and any other Christian or non-Christian who wishes to respond to me directly or through the discussion forums:

If God came to you, and you could verify that it was God to a point that was satisfactory to you, and God told you that everything in the Bible was false and Christianity was nothing more than a fairy tale created for a long ago generation... would you believe God?

Let's bear in mind that both Victoria's and my question are hypothetical and can not be answered with the answer that I hear the most ("God would never say that!"). We start from the point that God has already asked the question.

Here is the link to my mail: cygnus@cygnus-study.com

Or respond here at the discussion forums (registration required).

All responses will be added below.

From Randall on the CARM board:

I am sorry, but I cannot agree with your last paragraph wherein you claim that the statement "God would never say that!" is unacceptable. If you understand God's attributes, one being truth, then there must be some truth granted and given to mankind which is 100% reliable, assuming that God said that He did grant such a revelation to be given. (and He has done this, fulfilling the premise).

So in that regard, your statement is like saying "suppose square triangles exist, or round lines, would you change your opinion?" My response is this, square triangles are meaningless and false, as are round lines. (some may want to quibble, but I am talking about the standard understanding of straight 2-dimensional lines).

It is safe to say, that if the author of truth came to me and said "Those writings there are wrong" then I would believe him. Anybody would be wrong to believe elsewise. The dispute is over whether the Scriptures were divinely inspired by the author of truth or not.

(assuming that you accept God's existance)

Unfortunately for Randall, he did not let one debate go before commenting on a second. The question has nothing to do with whether or not the Bible is true, but how one would react to learning something contrary to their present belief system. Randall believes so strongly in his belief system that he can not concieve of another possibility.

From Qwert on the CARM board:

If God came to me and said the bible was false, Then there would be no god to come to me. Now IF God came to me and said Christianity was false then sure Id beleive him.

I think that Qwert needs to learn about other views of God. There are many concepts of God that are outside of, and quite contradictory to, the Bible's. It seems though, that Qwert sees a problem with modern Christianity. Good that we should agree on something.

From Logan on the CARM board:

If God appeared to me in such a way that I knew unquestionably that it was indeed God then I probably believe whatever the hell he told me. as would anyone...

Almost anyone. Some people would disbelieve that which they accept as a truth greater than God.

From Ena on the CARM board:

I find your answer interesting and sincere. I have one question however if I may. If I were not one of the multiple witnesses in your response and did not know you and you were relaying your experiences to me at a later time how would you assure me of your truth and why should I believe you if I don't believe the disciples' since they claim to have had the same situation happened to them or do I believe both witnesses using your testimony in addition to their's?

If I were relating the story to you and you could not verify it independently of my testimony, you would be a fool to believe me. Likewise, you would be a fool to believe the disciples testimony. Perhaps more of one than if you believed me, since they lived in an age of superstition and I don't.

If you were telling the truth wouldn't I be a fool to not believe you regardless? Actually, if I believe you or anyone else on anything I have to consider the source and the integrity of the source, and you are correct I would be a fool to believe you considering I don't know you and I know very little about you. {except what you look like (: } In addition, I have to consider what do you gain in my believeing your testimony which may influence your credibility one way or another.

Right now I could talk to you directly but what if I am living in the year 2098 and I couldn't, but you were still telling the truth. How would I be able to validate your testimony a millennium from now? If the disciples were telling the truth back then, then why would it make a difference now as to the time period or culture?

You brought up the credibility factor. As a "non-believer", what do I have to gain from telling you that the Bible is untrue and you believing me?

The same is true of the Bible. There is a modicum of truth there, though it has clearly been blown into something that it never was.

From Sam (Cykosis) on the CARM board:

If God came to me, and I could verify without a shadow of a doubt it was Him, and told me the bible was false and so was christianity, I would do 2 things,

1. Find out just what it is that God wishes us to believe.

2. Cease to believe the bible in any way, ahape or form, and immediately begin preaching EXACTLY what God told me He wanted people to believe.

These are my answers to your HYPOTHETICAL question.

A true allegiance to God.

From JoyAnn Moody in my Guestbook:

Regarding Victorias question about what would you do if God came and spoke directly to you and your answer back to her. I had a strange thing happen to me over a year ago. My husband and myself had been involved in a xian cult for over 20 yrs and as it fell apart we were very confused as to what constituted truth anymore. I had been down on my knees praying and asking God to reveal "truth" to me and as I arose from my knees the following thought hit my mind "what if christianity is one of the greatest hoaxs ever to be played on this world". At first I rejected such a thought, but then after awhile I realized that I had never really proved from personal study, whether christianity was true or not, I had always just beleived the religionists. So I began an in depth study and proved that christianity is nothing more than fables and myths. I wrote up a paper detailing my research and sent it to some people I knew, who in turn told me that my research work was good, but next I needed to do the same research to prove whether the OT was based on truth or not, I then began a research that brought me to the conclusion that the stories of the OT were not based on truth either. I have concluded that there is a "Deity" but he is not as the relgionists show him to be, and I personally believe that when I asked him to reveal truth to me, he did so by causing that thought to come to my mind. Regardless whether he actually did or not, I am very thankful to have been released from the slavery of mans religion and mans gods.

JoyAnn, I do not know if you are a Deist or not, but this is almost the testimony of one. Congratulations on your release and rescue from a revealed religion.

From Kirsten Anderson via e-mail:

You posed an interesting question on your site ("Victoria's Question").

My answer, of course--after I was pretty well assured that I was not experiencing a full-blown schizophrenic hallucination--would be to say, "Okay! that was a great diversion, God, and in some ways I can even see that it helped humanity. (the rise of individualism and personal responsibility, for one thing) Now. How do we progress out of this pit and develop a relationship with you? How can we develop to make ourselves co-creators with you?"

Interesting twist. You seem to be presuming that God caused the deception in the hypothesis. I would agree that God allowed it, but why would you think that God caused it?

Kirsten replied:

You know, that blows me wee tiny mind. On one hand, I would say that religion (all of 'em, not just Christianity) is divinely inspired. Inspired like great works of art or music come from "out there," yet are the handwork of humans. I think that at the highest levels, all religions lead to the same place...and again, the pathways are very similar. All holy people--Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu-say the same things and behave in very similar ways. So, I think there are elements of all substantial religions that are god-directed, or god-inspired.

And on the other hand, could religion more logically be a human (and flawed) reaction to God, or god-experience? No religion has all the answers, and it seems that all of them contain such fuel for idiots to hang onto and use to abuse others. But religion is very much part of the human condition. It seems that Victoria's Question could be answered both ways, because I think both aspects--the divine and human--enter into it.

As Kirsten does in all of her e-mails, she inspires me to think here. Thank you, Kirsten.

From Dawn Korotko via e-mail:

I've read thru all the answers and I think some people are overlooking a basic fact in their zeal to support their beliefs.

Religion is made by man, for man. Or, I should say, for certain men. If God were to appear to me and say the Bible was false, Yes, I would most definitely believe in God. God is not constrained, contained or constricted into any man-made document, whether it suits your soul to call it inspired or not.

I believe in the divine but I think the paths are many. The Druids believed that whatever was required for you at that point on your path was required for you. Icons, statues, Bibles, whatever. How one comes to understand the divine is not what is important. Nor are there speed limits or vehicle requirements for the path.

This is direct contrast to Kirsten's made by God/made by man response, but touches on the spiritual that religions touch on. There is wisdom in this answer, too.

From Nick Mac'An't-Saoir through the guestbook:

This question encapsulates everything I have ever felt about the church, bible and religion in general. *If* God existed and *if* God had decided to write a book through humankind, it must be inevitable that there would be wild and differing inaccurracies between the accounts of what happened. This in itself would be reason enough to doubt the authenticity of the book. Even without the academic sources that you have, my own sense of reason denies the plausibility of what is written. These pearls of wisdom were written by an extremely superstitous people who believed in pillars of fire and animal sacrifice. Yet somehow, either through brute force or guile, these *truths* are even further bent out of shape in order to be relevant, if that is possible, to todays society. Honestly, I really do despair.

From Daniel Griliopoulis via e-mail:

I have always assumed that people who claimed god had spoken to them had misinterpreted a dream, were hallucinating, were insane their brain had made a mistake, which they would have to belive (i think therefore i am - how reliable is reality?).If a god appeared to me, i would have to assume the same of me - going insane (or 'misinterpreting reality')is to me, more likely than the existence of a god - this unfortuneatly means i can never 100% belive in god.

From John Finch through the guestbook:

Firstly in answer to Victoria's question, How would I know this was actually God, and not a Trick. As there is no way this will ever happen, if it were true, it would have been documented many times by one of today's media.

Again... we start by assuming that this is indeed God in front of you. We know this because it is verified to your satisfaction. Remember that this is a hypothetical situation.

From Stephen Charchuk on the CARM board:

I had some thought about this and I would give the same answer to the question about god coming down and telling us that either it was all true or the it was all false.

I would go up to the SOB and smack his/her/its face and then ask why the terrible and cruel practical joke on us all with such an obscure message. Telling us that we had to have faith without actually validation.

Thank you very much! Excellent response. Also I would ask how God could expect perfection from a creature that he/she/they/it created purposefully imperfect. I would also ask why he/she/they/it could allow human suffering, when the power was there to make paradise on earth from the very beginning. I would then spit at it's feet and turn my back on it forever.

Of course, this contradicts my initial response to Victoria's question in which I said that I would worship and proselytize. It shows the dilemna one is faced when they are confronted with a truth that they have previously believed impossible.

From Dave Sage via e-mail:

If God said that to me I would say in a sarcastic tone (if I had the courage in front of the mighty one)  "No kidding, really, wow"

If God told me the bible is true I would ask him why he has let all the other religions go down an errant path, and only chose to save one fraction of the world's people. Which is why I first came to doubt the teachings of the Bible and Christianity.

True enough! Why would God expect everyone to follow one narrow path? Many Christians say that free will was created because it would be boring if we were all robots. Then they believe that one narrow path is the truth. Go figure. I guess paradox is beyond many Christians.

From DRDSR1 via e-mail:

My real answer to your question: I would ask Him why it was he lied to me several years ago when He called me into the ministry!

The hypothetical answer to your question: Whoops, my bad. Where to now?

I like the second answer much more than the first, as it does not accuse God of lying or misleading this individual, but places the blame on him/herself. Also, it leaves open the opporunity to blame the men who created this religion.